Monday, September 28, 2009

Eucharist Needed in Times of Crisis

Some of the laity in Cleveland have organized because their bishop plans on closing or merging 50 parishes. The laity state that some of these parishes are vibrant and financially self-sufficient. What reason could exist for closing all those parishes except the priest shortage. Bishop Lennon, celebrating the last Mass at one of these parishes a few weeks ago had a police escort.

In Spain, a study by a newspaper there has determined that 20% of the country's priests are married or laicized. Many conservatives still contend that a married clergy (or women priests) would not solve the priest shortage problem. They say: Look at Protestant churches... This has got to be one of the few issues that conservatives think that we can learn something from Protestants. Although a married and female clergy may not "solve" the entire problem, it would help dramatically. In addition, for vibrant and financially stable parishes that still do not have a priest, a lay person should be appointed by the bishop to be able to celebrate Mass as an extraordinary celebrant until a priest is available. In emergency situations, we already allow lay persons to perform baptism, anointing of the sick, and reconciliation. Is not the closing or merging of 50 parishes an emergency? I'm pretty sure if you ask the parishes involved they will see it as an emergency. I also believe that sooner or later, what's happening in Cleveland will be happening here in Milwaukee.

A Faithful Catholic


Anonymous said...


In an emergency, the laity can perform a baptism. However, the theology of Reconciliation and Anoiting of the Sick do not allow for that. You do not approach Sacraments with a theological mind, you approach it out of sheer practicality. That is not the problem approach.

Yes, the priest shortage is sad and a tragedy. At the same time, only 25% of Catholics attend Mass (weekly). That requires a lesser number of priests, however, we are still operating the same number of Churches when that number was around 75%. Some level of merger and closure, while sad and tragic, is necessary since most Catholics have chosen to embrace the Culture.

Pruned it grows. One only needs to look at the Faithful Catholic dioceses in this country that preach the Dynamic Orthodox Catholic Faith and one sees their incredible growth in Vocations.

Progressive (Heterodox) Theology is not the answer. Look at the utter collapse of Liberal Mainline Protestantism.

Mark said...

Anon, what is the "dynamic orthodox catholic faith?" Of course extremes always attract a hard core of dedicated (fanatic)followers. Just look at the catholics who see Jesus/Mary in every pancake. And, of course, your "docf" is going to be attractive. Kind of like the "tea party" group? Dedicated as hell! The new "heart" of the Republican part.

And your new church? Getting young immature kids to make life long decision just to satisfy some old bishop.

FC. I tried to be nice!!

CatholicSoldier said...


Interesting discussion here. The truth of the matter is this, where the Catholic Faith is preached it in fullness, there is a rich and vibrant community and Vocations. I know that you find that uncomfortable. The truth of the matter is that progressive "Catholicism" is just as empty as the apostate "christianity" of the Mainline Protestants. As the Apostle St. John wrote, "Do not be so progressive as to be outside the Church". The truth of the matter is that this Progressive "Catholicism" is outside of the Church.

Mark said...

CS, I know you are a nice guy, but where did you get the authority to say who is Catholic and who is not. Is anyone who doesn't agree with you an apostate or heretic. All 'conservative' movements appeal to some by nature of their extreme views. Trying to get 13 year olds to live forever a "celibate" life is relativively easy. The bishops know such extremism is easy to sell to adolescents.

I say shame on clergy who try to recruit young innocents to their 'unusual'life styles.

CatholicSoldier said...


FC has in the past stated clearly and unequivocally that he holds beliefs that run counter to the Apostles and Nicean-Constantipolitan Creed. That is SIGNIFICANT.

The basic point is that many "progressive" Catholics hold beliefs that run counter to Basic Catholic Dogma.

Mark said... the bodily assumption of Mary a basic Catholic teaching? It is. So the people who did not believe that in say 640 were apostaates or heretics. Remember Catholic teaching cannot change. So the people who did not believe that were what? How many basic catholic beliefs have not benn revealed to us? Will other basic beliefs be revealed later?

CatholicSoldier said...

There is a difference between created doctrine and definitively formulated. You might minimize the difference, but it is quite distinct.

I like how you pick the Assumption, but if you look at the Early Fathers, it was written about. I notice you steer clear of the virgin birth (which both you and FC have denied in the past), the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ (which both you and FC have denied in the past), and most recently, FC's denial of the Return of Christ. I've pretty much covered the Christology of the Nicaean Creed have I not?

It is sad, but you are in many ways, hopeless. Only the Grace of Christ can open your eyes, but the truth is the truth, as much as you seek to deny it again and again.

Terrence Berres said...

"Is not the closing or merging of 50 parishes an emergency?"

Let's compare the situation in our Archdiocese of Milwaukee. If the declines in Mass attendance, etc., that made most of our parishes potentially redundant were not a matter for concern, then the later closing and merger of parishes is hardly an emergency.

Mark said...

CS, now you're playing games. As a devout Catholic said: There is so much christian writing, you can find anything you want."

Do you agree with this Catholic teaching: Man is God's glory; women are man's glory.

No doubt you believe the world is flat as the "fathers" did.

No doubt you believe in the execution of heretics as the Catholic "fathers" did.
So CS, if you can find anything in the "Fathers", that must be true.

Come on now. You just can't look through thousands of pages and find something you like and say the "fathers" said so.

Faithful Catholic said...

Correction: I didn't mean to imply that lay-people could perform all the sacraments I mentioned per canon law today in emergency situations. But that during certain times in our Church history, baptism, confirmation, marriage, anointing of the sick, and reconciliation have been performed by the laity as extraordinary ministers with the permission of the bishop.

I don't have the time to list all the examples, but you look for yourselves.

Terrence Berres said...

"I don't have the time to list all the examples, but you look for yourselves."

If your schedule only permits unsupported assertions, you might want to consider moving Catholic Wintertime to Twitter.