Monday, November 3, 2008

The Apostles Mary and Mary

There was a comment on my blog last week about how Jesus only chose men to be apostles, so only men may be priests. He may not know that apostle simply means one who is sent. That is why Paul was considered an apostle and in his letters we see that women also were "sent" to spread the word about Jesus.

We also have early in our tradition, Mary Magdalene, referred to as the Apostle to the Apostles. And anyone familiar with Catholic art has seen the painting of the Holy Spirit descending at Pentecost with Mary at center-stage. Two stunning examples of women carrying the torch of the Jesus movement after the resurrection.

This blogger may not be aware that in the early church, there were no seminaries and no pope and that Jesus did not appoint priests. We know from Luke's Gospel that many wealthy women traveled with him that may have gone on to become priests in light of the resurrection.

While our Catholic bishops may be heirs to the apostles, they heirs to their message. Their roles are very different. The bishops represent the overseers/episkopoi that the Apostles, both men and women, put in place in the communities that they founded. And chances are, if men and women founded these communities, they were celebrants at Mass.

A Faithful Catholic

25 comments:

Terrence Berres said...

While "Mary the mother of Jesus" is recorded as present just before Pentecost, Acts 1:13-14 (NAB), in the interim "they gave lots to them, and the lot fell upon Matthias, and he was counted with the eleven apostles", Acts 1:26 (NAB).

Jack said...

Terrence and dad29. I hate to admit it but you are from Wisconsin, I think, and I am from the sticks, Oklahoma. Could you help me on voting tomorrow. I want to be from a real "IN" state like Wisconsin and not be counted from a hick state lake Oklahoma. You have Madison. We have Tulsa. See, you are much more sophisticated than we "okies." I haven't followed the polls so could you tell me who to vote for. I want to be with it so will take the advice of your state. From my neighbors it appears Oklahoma will go with McCain. But because I want to be really up to date I will go with how Wisconsin votes. Would you be kind enough to tell me how it looks in Wisconsin? I will vote like it looks like Wisconsin will vote. Let me know, before I go to vote tomorrow morning. Thanks, and God bless you both. Jack

Terrence Berres said...

"I haven't followed the polls..."

On your blog you indicate you have. Perhaps it depends on what the meaning of "followed" is, much as F.C. demonstrated that in another context it depends on what the meaning of "apostle" is.

Jack said...

Terrence, I should have said "not lately." The last I checked Wisconsin was real close. Please answer my question!!Don't make me quote Jeremiah Wright and apply it to your state. Wisconsin has always been in the front of the "up to date." I have been trying to find SOME relative from Madison. Wasn't some guy named La Foliate from your state? Jack

Terrence Berres said...

Why it was only October 21st when you there said you were "taking time off from football and the election" for one post. So perhaps we need to add "lately" to "apostle" as among the ambiguous terms.

"Wasn't some guy named La Foliate from your state?"

No "was" about it, Douglas LaFollette is our long-time Secretary of State.

Jack said...

Hey, Terrence. Where did I say I was following the polls? You can be interested in an election without "following the polls." I know you are real educated but I thought I read once about a La Foliate back in the twenties who was a big national figure. Could I be right? You would certainly know that as a big time badger.And with your vast knowledge. So come on, help your inferiors.

BTW, I was interested in the Federalist Society. Doesn't "Bonkers" Bork belong? Can't remember his first name. And is it true that C.(porno) Thomas belongs or did belong? What do you do at the meetings? Did Clarence bring his cache to show the members? Incidentally, my boyhood football hero was "Jug" Girard. Do you know that name without looking it up? Jack

Dad29 said...

Ahhhh....the waste of electrons, Jack, shows up.

Jack said...

What makes you and terrence so afraid???Something going on there. Jack

Terrence Berres said...

"the waste of electrons"

'Conservation of mass: it's the law!' --Homer Simpson

Jack said...

Chicken little and Chicken BIG. Jack

Terrence Berres said...

"Chicken little and Chicken BIG."

'Mmm, chicken.' --Homer Simpson

Jack said...

How's the vote going up there? Jack

Terrence Berres said...

"How's the vote going up there?"

You just slide it into the machine.

Andy said...

"This blogger may not be aware that in the early church, there were no seminaries and no pope and that Jesus did not appoint priests."

Um.... No pope?

How about Peter? And the unbroken line of successors.

Are you really Catholic? Or just misinformed?

Jack said...

Hey, Bouvier sisters, I'm really confused. I notice catholics supported the baby killer Obama over the only partly baby killer McCain by a wide margin. What about those wonderul bishop/teachers? Do catholics support them less than protestants? Hard to figure.

Terrence Berres said...

"I'm really confused."

We noticed that on Monday when you commented at 3:13pm that you had been following the polls but "not lately" and then commented at 4:22pm "Where did I say I was following the polls?"

Jack said...

Terrence (Thelma)have you been drinking? I thought I had added "not lately." But have it your way. Will you comment on my comment about our "teachers?"

Jack said...

Oops, make that "Selma."

Terrence Berres said...

Andy, you asked of F.C. "Are you really Catholic? Or just misinformed?" F.C. has elsewhere even dissented from the Apostles Creed. In our Archdiocese that probably increases the odds he's on the Church payroll somewhere. Which, Jack, might be pertinent to your question about bishops as teachers.

Faithful Catholic said...

Andy,

It appears that you may be mis-informed. In the early church, Rome was seen to be in equal standing as Antioch, Constantinople, and Alexandria. The bishop of Rome never even called any of the first 4 great councils. Augustine never asks Rome about anything in any of his writings. He does not see the need to since he is not answerable to Rome. You can start checking out those things, that should give you a decent start.

Terrence Berres said...

"In the early church, Rome was seen to be in equal standing as Antioch, Constantinople, and Alexandria."

Andy, this interpretation appears to have escaped Patriarch Eustathius of Constantinople who in 1024 "suggested to Pope John XIX the following formula...'Let the Church of Constantinople be called and accounted universal in her own sphere, as Rome is throughout the world.'" --Timothy Ware (Bishop Kallistos of Diokleaia), 'The Orthodox Church' (1964) pp. 316-17.

CatholicSoldier said...

FC,

You have so mangled and twisted Church history it is difficult to determine where to begin.

I would suggest you read the Bible and the writings of the Early Church Fathers and your incorrect view of Church History would swiftly be corrected.

The Bishop of Rome was always viewed as the pre-eminent See. It was how that see exercised its power that led to the real difference in how Constantinople and Rome developed. All you need to do is read Ignatius of Antioch (himself Bishop of a Patriarchal See) to see his view on the Bishop of Rome.

Faithful Catholic said...

My whole point is that there is and always has been a diversity of views. Someone can always find an early source that backs up there point of view. Ignatius vs. Augustine, etc.

Terrence Berres said...

"My whole point is that there is and always has been a diversity of views. Someone can always find an early source that backs up there point of view."

So if you prefaced that with "We believe", it would serve as the Creed of Progressive Catholicism?

Andy said...

Terrence,
Thanks for the reference.

"Faithful" Catholic.

So, that whole thing about the Church being founded on Peter (who was in... ahum.... where in present-day Italy?) was a bunch of crock?

FC, why don't you just go off and join the Episcopalians, or one of the many, MANY heretical sects that broke off of the Church?
Why you would belong to anything that you disagree with and lie about so much is BEYOND my comprehension.